Yesterday, 02:48 PM
|
? #1 |
|
Basic Member ?Join Date: May 2011 Location: London Posts: 284 |
Just venting about sound... Great, I've shot my first short, the musician whose music I borrowed liked it so much she is spending money on shooting a music vid, I have another short next Feb / March and a few other bits and pieces kicking around. Sure, I had my short critiqued by an industry pro who taught me a huge amount about what I should've done. I was beginning to get compliments, feeling smug that I was making progress and then, and then... I sat for 2 hours with a sound engineer. I helped him with a little thing which means that in return, he's happy to give me lots of his time recording free of charge when he's around and also to give me a few lessons. In that two hours, I learned more about the mistakes I'd made than I could ever possibly have imagined. Sound design for individual scenes (creating depth, shape), mood and recording live. The amount I learned was absolutely unbelievable. I felt like a complete, total and utter sound fool, almost as if I'd never shot anything before. He showed me simple little elements which would've improved my first short immeasurably. I had absolutely no idea and feel like a total, complete and utter idiot relating to the sound which was recorded. Before I met him, I thought I knew something about sound but afterwards, I feel the way Einstein's cat must've felt when he was talking about Quantum mechanics. It feels like the more I know, the more I don't know... Anyhow, just venting... And incidentally, if anyone has a minute, I have a trailer for a second short in the narrative screening room. If you have (literally) a minute, I'd appreciate if you'd have a look and critique. And if you do have a look, please be brutal. And sound people - I can now hear the issues... Jeez, I feel like a total noob...
Last edited by gorillaonabike; Yesterday at 02:50 PM. |
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 02:54 PM
|
? #2 |
|
Basic Member ?Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Brownsville Texas USA Posts: 122 |
oh god now i'm going to be self conscious about my audio |
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 03:25 PM
|
? #4 | |||||
|
IndieTalk Filmmaking Guru ?Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: hollywood Posts: 6,462 |
Quote:
knowing people will comment. Mostly I'll let your own words comment: Quote:
Quote:
been where you are or will be there. I've been where you are. Don't beat yourself up. Enjoy the learning. Quote:
Quote:
wrong about being a noob? I've been making movies for a long time - I've been making my sole living (not part time, not hobbiest) for my entire working life in film so I'm no longer a noob, but everyday it feels like the more I know, the more I don't know. I LOVE that! I am always learning from someone who knows more than I do and that's what keeps me going. Do you not feel that way? Usually I recognize and understand that we all feel differently about most things - but not this. I can't imagine anyone not absolutely loving the fact that the more you know the more you find out you don't know. I would be stifled if I actually knew everything about filmmaking. I would stop making movies if I did. Learning new things is what keeps me going - it's my favorite part of this job. |
|||||
|
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 03:32 PM
|
? #5 |
|
Premiere Member ?Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Nashville, TN Posts: 3,261 |
My audio guy has 20 plus years in studio recording and live venue recording. The last thing he did for me (Kohlman Files) is now the 10th film/video project he has worked on. I believe if you count everything (mix, Foley, ADR, music, etc...) he put 200 hours plus into a 22 minute video. We STILL consider what we are doing on the sound side really rudimentary at best. |
|
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 04:15 PM
|
? #6 |
|
Premiere Member ?Join Date: May 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 452 |
I'd definitely second what Directorik said. I've been making my living from sound (music and audio post) for nearly 30 years. Many consider me to be an expert but that doesn't mean I know it all, in fact far from it. Being an "expert" means that I am knowledgeable and experienced enough to realise just how limited my knowledge really is, whereas you are just starting to learn how limited your knowledge is. Even after 30 years I still know only a small fraction of what there is to know about sound but it's this which drives me. If I really did know it all, I'd probably give up out of sheer boredom. In other words, don't let ignorance get you down, use it to push yourself forward. That's what I do! G |
|
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 05:09 PM
|
? #7 |
|
Basic - Premiere Expired ?Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairfield County, CT Posts: 4,542 |
All I've learned is that I still have an awful lot to learn... Sound is the hardest part of filmmaking. You can't see it, you can't touch or feel it, and no one ever bothered to teach you how to listen. Listening is so completely automatic that you never think about it. Your ears were the only sense that was completely active when you were in your mothers womb. Your ears never "turn off," they are active 24/7. They are your alarm system when you are asleep, still processing everything you hear, listening for threats. Your hearing is multidimensional without moving your head; you can pinpoint sounds left or right, front or back, up or down. You can close you eyes if you don't want to see something, but you can''t close your ears; at best you can stuff your fingers in your ears and mute the sound a bit. That is the issue; you take your hearing completely for granted. Until you learn how to listen you will always have problems with film sound. |
|
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 05:48 PM
|
? #8 | |
|
Basic Member ?Join Date: May 2011 Location: London Posts: 284 |
Quote:
However, what really struck me is how obvious certain elements of sound design are... and how I completely overlooked them. I put a couple of them into the f@cked up trailer I put together (in the narrative section) but the sound had already been recorded badly by the time I got to it... Back to beating my head against my computer screen... |
|
|
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 08:10 PM
|
? #9 | |
|
Basic - Premiere Expired ?Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairfield County, CT Posts: 4,542 |
Quote:
As I've been preaching for years, it all starts with the production sound. At the indie level you cannot afford - financially and artistically - to ignore capturing quality production sound. "Sound is HALF of the experience." |
|
|
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 09:02 PM
|
? #10 | |
|
Basic Member ?Join Date: May 2011 Location: London Posts: 284 |
Quote:
However, this is the first time I have had to consider how sound carries an image, the way the brain interprets etc... This is all new. |
|
|
?
|
|
|
Yesterday, 09:43 PM
|
? #11 | |
|
Premiere Member ?Join Date: May 2012 Location: Europe Posts: 452 |
Quote:
As filmmakers we need to have a good understanding of perception, so we can manipulate it to tell our story. The fact is that perception is a single combination of senses rather than a set of individual unrelated senses. This is massively important to appreciate because it means that our perception of what we are hearing is influenced by what we are seeing and how we perceive the images we are seeing is influenced by what we are hearing. Filmmakers who concentrate on the visual aspect of filmmaking are wasting their time, if they are not equally considering how the sound will affect the perception of those who will be watching the images. Here's an excellent demonstration of what I'm talking about and of how the perception of sight and sound are completely interlinked rather than being two independent senses.
|
|
|
?
|
|
|
Today, 12:44 AM
|
? #12 |
|
Basic Member ?Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: bay area Posts: 50 |
Holy crap! I didn't even notice his mouth at first, i just started hearing fa fa fa instead.. That is very interesting. This whole thread has been making me think about my sound. Sound is one of the things that was extremely lacking for me in the past and still is. I have no clue how to even get started on getting into making better sound. My friend who is working on films with me is the one with the real passion for sound. Although, he is at the same place as me and I don't really know how to get him started on actually learning how to create proper sound for our films. I don't even know where to start myself.. |
|
?
|
|
|
Today, 01:40 AM
|
? #14 |
|
Basic - Premiere Expired ?Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Fairfield County, CT Posts: 4,542 |
One place to start is to read Sound Design: The Expressive Power of Music, Voice and Sound Effects in Cinema by David Sonnenschein. He discusses the artistic, psycho-acoustic and other esoteric aspects of sound rather than the technical ones. You may also want to watch/listen to folks like Randy Thom, Ben Burrt, Gary Rydstrom and Walter Murch discuss the craft of sound design on YouTube and on the DVD extras of the films on which they worked. (I posted a Randy Thom interview today, as a matter of fact: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=44361) You may also want to spend some time at FilmSound.org. Randy Thom is especially forthcoming. He used to be a frequent participant on an audio post forum I subscribe to; he doesn't participate much these days as he now basically runs SkyWalker Sound. He was a great help to me when I started out, answering my endless questions. Production sound is highly technical and requires great skill, but does not allow for much in the way of creative artistry, although it is an art-form unto itself. Audio post is another world entirely. Sound design is about the emotional content of the sounds, how they propel the story and enhance the characters. One thing that immediately becomes apparent is that you need to be able to understand and use technology instinctively so that it doesn't interfere with the creative process. You are creating, from scratch, an entire sonic world. The audience must believe it entirely, yet not really notice it. I'm not trying to denigrate your interest in sound, but it requires a very large commitment. You really need to love sound. You need to spend a lot of time listening to the real world and how sound designers translate the real world into the film medium. I can't tell you how many hours I have spent with a hidden mic and headphones in bars, diners, train stations, bus stations, parks, beaches and dozens of other locations listening to people talking (to get the flow for dialog editing) and how real world sounds are radically changed when coming through a microphone - and then how it changes again when played through speakers. I also spend a lot of time listening to films without watching the visuals; it's amazing how much just the sounds (and the score) let you what is going on in a film. |
|
?
|
|
|
Today, 06:40 AM
|
? #15 | |
|
Basic Member ?Join Date: May 2011 Location: London Posts: 284 |
Quote:
Funnily enough, I did not understand why a mixer was necessary! I was reading all the posts about sound and thought I had an idea but I really did not understand. Part of this was because I lacked an understanding of the basics of sound design - emphasis on the word 'design' which gives depth, movement and realism to any short / music recording. This is where a mixer and sound design meet... Jeez I'm dumb for not understanding this before! There are some flaws with my setup for tomorrow which are around the recording (plus the human element). Again, I did not understand about the weakest link in the chain concept of sound. Sure, I understood the concept but would not have really been able to put my finger on exactly why the recorder I am using is a weak link. After the discussion, practice and demo with the sound engineer, I now genuinely understand the basics and it is as if a million pennies have dropped. As a note, the professional sound engineer offered to lend me a piece of professional equipment to record the sound and gave me a brief tutorial. Unfortunately, I was unable to take the recorder as I was physically unable to carry it away under the weight of the mixer, the cables, the mics and the other gear I had on me! Cameras are so much easier!!!!! For my next short in Feb / March, I will have a dedicated sound recordist who has a smattering of sound recording experience. I could've described what the different buttons on a mixer did but I hadn't made the connection in the relationship between design and a mixer as well as how we, as humans, interpret sound. I feel so dumb!!!! I feel like an idiot!!!
Last edited by gorillaonabike; Today at 06:42 AM. |
|
|
?
|
|
| Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 4 (0 members and 4 guests) | |
| ? |
|
Posting Rules
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:51 AM.
Source: http://www.indietalk.com/showthread.php?t=44362
Ncaa Football Scores Plaquemines Parish michigan football michigan football askew blue moon ann romney
No comments:
Post a Comment
Note: Only a member of this blog may post a comment.